Interview episodes are a fun change from hearing me drone on all the time. I'm delighted to share this week's interview with Cori Miller about saying “no” when a client's behavior doesn't sit right with you.
Running a business isn't objective all the time.
Honing the skills to listen to yourself is essential, and a big reason why I advocate for self care as much as learning about your camera on this podcast. Sometimes you have to really listen closely, and it's not an exact science but something that takes practice.
Remember, attracting your ideal client and building a brand you love involves repelling some people, too. And that's okay.
Natalie Jennings
Today I'm joined by Cori Miller. We're both Minneapolis-based photographers. And I am going to cover the idea of listening to your inner voice and knowing that it's okay to say no. We're going to dive into that in a little bit.
Natalie Jennings
This episode was inspired by something that recently happened to Cori but first, I'm going to give her a chance to just introduce herself. Cori, if you just want to say a little bit about what kind of photography you do and maybe give folks a place that's easy to find your work.
Cori Miller
I photograph families, weddings, events, animals, I try to be a little broad with what I capture but focusing on portraits and lifestyle. So you can check out some of my work on Instagram. His handle is @corimiller
Natalie Jennings
Cori and I have worked together a lot over the years. And she's an amazing photographer. I think when you sort of get, I guess down the road a little in business, there's this inner voice that gets a little bit louder, because you've had more experience. You kind of know when a client might not be a great fit. But in the early days of doing business, it's a little bit harder to distinguish, mainly because we're so excited to get a booking and we really just want the experience.
Do you want to share a little bit about what happened here recently and how this episode was inspired?
Cori Miller
I received an inquiry and initially just seemed a little off, but I know there could be reasons for that just the communication was just different. But as we went along this individual kept asking to negotiate price and it got to a point where was a little uncomfortable. There were just some red flags and based off the communication and the negotiations I just mentioned to this individual that I was no longer comfortable moving forward with them. I felt they could find someone else I'd be a better fit for their needs.
Cori Miller
What ended up happening was this person became very upset and so I received a lot of harassment from this individual through different emails. She created multiple email addresses and was contacting me. This continued for a little bit and I overall was glad I didn't end up booking with this individual because I wouldn't want to be in the same room or put myself in a vulnerable position with this person.
Cori Miller
I feel like in the past, we talked about this briefly, I'm more of a people pleaser, so I would sacrifice my comfort for the sake of pleasing someone else. And learning to advocate for myself and learning how to say no has been something I've tried to focus on. That's just part of my personal growth, which has greatly and clearly influenced my decision making in my business too.
Natalie Jennings
That's such a great, great point. Just the idea of sacrificing our comfort. And I see that come through in photography in a lot of different ways. Sometimes it's editing a certain way. We've all been there, where it's like, “Oh, I don't know if my clients gonna like this style. So I'll do it this way,” at least I remember in the early days, kind of bending over backwards a little bit to please everyone.
I think it's super important, especially if you're listening to this and you're in your early stages of business building, like stick to what really lights you up and really hone in on that.
And even though you're dying to get business in the door, it's just as important to turn people away as it is to attract people that are your ideal client. You will find more of your ideal client the more that you kind of slot into what's right for you.
How far into your journey as a photographer were you starting to hear that voice where you were like, “I gotta stop doing all this stuff for people that I don't want to do” or whatever it was that made you kind of start saying no?
Cori Miller
Sure, it kind of comes in phases. So I feel like I would take any gig and try to shoot to my clients style, like you're saying. It was branching out and meeting other photographers, when I'd see like, oh, they're really great at this style. And that's not something I enjoy doing. So it's like, I can just refer those clients to someone else. And then I can focus on what I want to do.
Cori Miller
Then another face has been just even recently, just through personal growth in my personal life, just mindfulness and through self care. I've been listening to myself more and learning to trust myself more, which is still a journey I'm on right now. And I think a lifelong journey, but that just recently, this particular experience made me realize like, Oh, I did it. I actually listened to myself, and I trusted myself and I'm happy that I did that. Yeah, taking that chance that I just wasn't comfortable with.
I love that you brought this topic up. And that's one of the reasons I wanted to do this show. And we've talked about how this show does the sort of photography, business building stuff. But I am a huge proponent of mind, body, spirit and personal growth stuff, especially if you're an entrepreneur. Because if you don't have that stuff as a priority, you're not going to be able to run a business.
Natalie Jennings
And this idea of listening to yourself it comes up not just with like, should I work with this person? But I mean, you're making big decisions as a business owner all the time. And I think I think that sort of gut feeling is stronger in some people than others. And if if you're really struggling in your business, to make decisions, like learning to listen to yourself, learning to be present, learning to really understand what's in alignment for you. I know that that's a phrase that's been tossed around a lot these days, but it's it's true than ever. And I think that's just a huge point to make.
Do you do you get like a physical sensation at all when you're in an uncomfortable position like that? How have you sort of learned to tune into that inner compass?
Cori Miller
It's definitely a practice. Step one is acknowledging things. Acknowledging that almost like that stomach and feeling your stomach just like something's not right. But it's funny, because even and I was thinking this leading up to this podcast interview, this is definitely outside of my comfort zone. So finding that balance of, well, is this something that I can learn from and grow from? And it's just uncomfortable because it's outside my comfort zone? Or is this something that was not good for me, and it's a risk in a negative way? So finding that balance, and it's still a practice, and I'm still acknowledging that and working through that, but just, it's hard to answer that…
Natalie Jennings
That's, I think that's a great answer. I think those two things can be sometimes hard to distinguish between. It brings up the idea of sometimes like, you know, when you've been invited to do something, and you're like, Well, I'd have fun if I go but I'm really worn out and I could probably use just a night to like, take a bath and read a book. Sometimes it is tricky to know when when to say yes and when to say no.
Natalie Jennings
Looping it back to like this client, I think the main message that I at least want to bring to particularly new photographers but anybody working with clients in business, is just that idea that like you do have a reaction.
You will immediately have a reaction when someone's not on the same vibe as you.
Natalie Jennings
Whether it's just like weird email interactions or maybe they're really blunt. Maybe they're just asking you to do all sorts of things that you don't do. And I can't stress enough how, first of all awesome it is that you said no, but how important it is to say no in those situations and to clarify what you offer and what you don't offer. The last thing that you want is to be like miserable doing the photoshoot or or the transaction and then them to come back tenfold with this same personality type and and give you a run for your money after the fact.
Natalie Jennings
You know, I've heard that happens so often where, you know, if you're not in alignment with with your client, like they might not be happy even if you're a great photographer. I just really appreciate you bringing up this topic. And I think it's super, super important.
Natalie Jennings
I've turned down clients before or directed them elsewhere. And it's, it's not the worst thing in the world. Like you said, having a good solid photographers network is so important. Audrey Johnson, who's been on the show before and who's in our Photo Business Help Facebook group. She just did a great post about how she's made 50% of her photo income last year from connecting with other photographers. I think like, you know, having that support system and also having those people to be able to direct you know, work towards if think it's in alignment with you, is really, really good.
Is there anything else that you want to add about this experience? And how you handled it and what, what really worked for you? Maybe advice for, for photographers that might have similar experiences, yours was pretty extreme.
Cori Miller
In kind of tying in what you're saying, with my clients, I want a relationship and there wasn't that piece. That piece was missing in my conversations with this individual. There was no relationship building, there was no, like..I just thought about if I wouldn't move forward with her, what would that even look like? And there wasn't that piece there.
Cori Miller
That's what I want with my clients is to build a relationship where we trust each other, and we're open with each other. And we're both happy with the process, the experience and the outcome. And just having the network to turn to with you and the other photographers being like, hey, this happened to me, and I just want to give everyone a heads up of what's going on. Just having that network and that relationship with other photographers, too. And that's been huge with my personal growth and my business growth.
It's when you really turn and build that community, you really see yourself growing too.
Natalie Jennings
Oh, for sure. And I learned so much from all of you guys. And it's, it's amazing watching the group grow. If you're listening, and you have no idea what we're talking about, there's a Facebook group called Photo Business Help with Natalie Jennings, you can just search it on Facebook. We're on Facebook, because it's still the easiest sort of platform to get everyone together in a space like that. But we're all there. As Cori just said, sharing experiences with each other and connecting and networking and I go on there. I'm going to start doing my Facebook Lives again, and giving out you know, tips and sort of live coaching and stuff. So it's a cool place to be if you know you're looking for a photo community, and I think we'll leave it at that. But remind us one more time where we can find you online, Cori, and thank you again.
Cori Miller
Thank you. You can find me on my website as well www.cori-miller.com
Natalie Jennings
Nice, cool. And it's Cori Miller on Instagram or is it Cori Miller?
Cori Miller
Just @corimiller
About Cori:
I am a lifestyle and documentary photographer based in Minneapolis, MN. My passion for photography began with my love for art. As I was studying Art and Anthropology at the University of Minnesota, I began building my photography career and finding ways to incorporate the study of people and art into a photographic approach.
My intention with photography is to capture who you are – the real moments, the real emotions – and for you to genuinely enjoy the experience. I aim to foster an environment where you can be yourself and be present. If we’re photographing intimate moments with you and your family, then savor this time you have with them and really be there. If we’re shooting creative headshots, then take this time to think about how you want to be represented. Regardless of the type of portrait session, this is about you, your moments, your story – And I am just here to document it .
As my photography business grows, and as I grow as an individual, I work harder towards combining my interests and passions with my career. I try to live a compassionate, intentional and mindful life. If we all make small changes in our choices and actions, then we can have a big impact on our world and how other beings experience the world. I am inspired by so many people around me who are really making a difference, whether it's helping people, animals, or the environment and I want to contribute to that; I want to share their impact and their story.
Notes:
- Cori's webiste: https://cori-miller.com/
